Video title: Rich Rosenblum | Wolf of all Streets
Summary: In this episode, Rich discussed various and pressing crypto trends, such as the potential for AI to impact the job market in the future. The speaker shared their thoughts on how AI could lead to job displacement but also create new jobs in the process. They believed that it was important for society to proactively manage the transition to ensure that the benefits of AI are maximized while minimizing the negative impacts on workers. The speaker also highlighted the importance of upskilling and reskilling the current workforce to prepare them for the jobs of the future.
Transcript:
INTERVIEWER
0:00
Impact the pandemic of people working remotely. It’s made it more okay for it to be that you don’t have to be in the office in the weekend. It’s also just a more tech forward landscape. You don’t necessarily need as many humans to monitor and it doesn’t mean we’re going to have the same liquidity at Saturday at midnight. But I think markets should probably be open a bit more in real time since events do happen on the weekends, at nights and we’re living in a more international landscape as well. So it would be easier for markets if the US is open, at least when Asia is open.
RICH
0:51
Let’s do most people don’t understand how the crypto market actually works, especially when it comes to institutions trading and institutions trading with size. Well, Rich Rosenblum was one of the first to become a market maker and to really solve these problems coming over from trading oil and other legacy assets and has a great perspective on exactly what it takes to make efficient markets in crypto. Great conversation you don’t want to miss. So right now the story obviously is global macro, what’s happening in the world and crypto has not been immune at all. We had sort of the narrative that it was going to be an idiosyncratic asset class would do well potentially in this environment. That hasn’t been the case. What do you think?
INTERVIEWER
1:38
Yeah, certainly I think that people would have thought that crypto, bitcoin specifically, is going to be a hedge to inflation. So it’s got to be pretty confusing for retail especially, which is going to have less of an understanding of the nuances of what the macro landscape is caused by. I think the rally already happened. We’re still three X where we were a couple of years ago. I think the problem is now that while inflation has rides, it’s what Central Bank is going to have to do to stop inflation and that’s going to hurt all risk assets. And I think when bitcoin was just an idea and has inflation protection qualities, it’s a lot of room for it to run. But now that you’re at the trillion type quantum, it’s become a risk assets, it’s going to have some correlation to other risk markets.
RICH
2:22
Is that something that you expected to happen?
INTERVIEWER
2:25
I think that similar to when I was in oil a decade ago and actually 2007, 2008 started seeing a lot more macro participants. It was great on the way up, but then 2009 on the way down, that same risk went away. So certainly if there’s going to be stagflation or a period where the inflation is damaging, risk assets certainly would assume crypto go with it. Just didn’t really predict this level of inflation. I think it’s the confluence and events finally with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, which also, I think was heavily unexpected. It caused the more persistent inflation. Well, you have the oil background, actually, which is something that I don’t think anyone else I’ve spoken to has. So it’s an opportunity, I mean, that’s obviously driving a lot of this
RICH
3:12
oil being well over $120 a barrel and at certain points. 1s Do you think that that was sort of the straw that broke the camel’s back to some degree with a potentially a bubble that was ready to pop already and that was the pin?
INTERVIEWER
3:26
Absolutely. I think that it’s. Commodities overall food and energy are the part that they say, oh, don’t look at that. They were to exclude those. Yes, exactly. But that’s the part that’s going to impact retail investors the most, arguably, and I think the reason why they don’t included it said it is the most volatile and there could be these short term impacts. But if Ukraine exports a third of the world’s wheat, and Russia is one of the top exporters of oil in the world, and we don’t know when the situation is going to fix itself, there’s going to be continued volatility in higher prices until, I think, something’s fixed on geopolitics. I think
RICH
4:03
it’s interesting and extremely surprising to a lot of people though, is the performance of the ruble during all of that. 1s It absolutely skyrocketed when people thought that the currency would get crushed. Right. Do you think that that’s tied to the fact that they control so much of the commodity market?
INTERVIEWER
4:19
Absolutely. Oil specifically. I think that even if the US has commandeered hundreds of billions of their fiat of their dollars that are held offshore, the amount they’ve made from oil doubling has more than fulfilled that level.
RICH
4:34
That didn’t work out exactly as planned, I would say. And I would say also potentially adding to all of this is the fact that this is one of the only markets that’s truly 24 7365 being the crypto market, obviously not necessarily oil. Do you think that the fact that people can run to this liquidity is part of the reason that it’s traded down so
INTERVIEWER
4:55
much? Yeah, I think that’s probably more the story in the short term, like we saw in March 2020, when bitcoin went to below $4,000 briefly, and I think it’s Aetherium into the hundreds of dollars, but at this point you’ve had time to get out. But I think there is this sense that anytime there is a new margin call, you’re going to sell what’s most liquid. So bitcoin futures, I think it’s going to take some punishment. But if you’ve had two months to get out, at least a lot of that damage has
RICH
5:25
already been done. Yeah, that makes sense for your 24/7/365. There’s now a push largely, I guess, led by FTX and SBF sort of to bring other markets to that paradigm rather than crypto remain the only one that’s that way. Do you think that that’s legitimately possible? I think we all agree that would be better. Do you think that’s possible?
INTERVIEWER
5:43
I think it’s a system people are so ingrained in, it might take more than a few meetings with the CFTC to get it through. It could take, you know, three to five years. But at the same time, I do think that’s the direction things are going. I think also the impact of the pandemic of people working remotely, it’s made it more okay for it to be that you don’t have to be in the office in the weekend. It’s also just a more tech forward landscape. You don’t necessarily need as many humans to monitor. And it doesn’t mean we’re going to have the same liquidity. 2s Saturday at midnight. But I think markets should probably be open a bit more living on real time, since events do happen on the weekends at nights, and we’re living in a more international landscape as well. So it would be easier for markets if the US is open, at least when Asia is open,
RICH
6:34
and then you’d be able to actually manage risk in real time as opposed to waiting till Monday morning to panic and sell everything. Yeah, exactly. So for you, though, I know you were one of the first, certainly, to focus on crypto and sort of take the same approach that perhaps you would have, you know, to other markets your market making. How do you do that? 24/7/365
INTERVIEWER
6:57
so I think we were one of the first to have a real Follow the sun model. So we have people across all three regions. Our offices are a lot of New York, Singapore, in that order. And so I think that if we were just trading on the top venues, I think we could probably have just one of those regions. But because we’re very client service oriented and we are on some of the second and third tier exchanges, we need to make sure that we’re able to fix problems in real time as well. So I think it’s been having a strong tech focus, but also there’s a lot of just blocking and tackling brute force, making sure that we’re available for own risk as well as for our clients. 24/7
RICH
7:38
Does it feel like there are a lot more problems right now than there have been in the past? Feels like things are breaking left and right.
INTERVIEWER
7:45
I think that from the defy side, I think after what happened with Aluna, it’s hard to say. I disagree. But I think that the market is a lot more mature now. The infrastructure is light years better than it was two years ago and versus one year ago. So things are working rather smoothly overall.
RICH
8:02
I think actually the story that’s sort of not being told is the lack of contagion from that event. Absolutely. Because when it happened, you had Janet Yellen on TV saying that it could collapse the entire financial system effectively, and nobody bothered to update the story two weeks later when Bitcoin is trading back basically at the same price and everything continues to operate. So isn’t that kind of a positive positive in some way? Maybe it’s overlining.
INTERVIEWER
8:29
Yeah, maybe that’s a testament to the real time trading and the transparency and making it so that things can be compartmentalized to a bigger degree. It’s not like in the credit crisis where you’d have all of this opaque risk where it takes years and lawsuits to know who knows who what. There’s less entanglement when it’s fintech.
RICH
8:51
But do you think with a situation like that I think we’ve all talked Luna to death. But do you think that there will be sort of these second order effects six months later finding out someone that you didn’t know was massively exposed to UST or something, it just feels to me like we’re having these endless sort of hacks and exploits. 1s Maybe it’s not more so than before and maybe it’s just more in the public eye, but that we’re just sort of shooting ourselves in the foot repeatedly here and we don’t really know what the effects are as of yet.
INTERVIEWER
9:21
There’s always going to be secondary, tertiary effects. But I think here the groups that had the most risk, I think we’re pretty thoughtful, and it’s money they could lose. I want to say house money, but I think that it’s not as if there were groups that were leveraged longs and now they’re owing money to an external. Right. Exactly.
RICH
9:42
What have you guys been focusing on primarily? I mean, are you somewhat agnostic to what you’re trading and you’re just making sure that there’s a tight spread and or are you focused specifically on certain facets of this market? I mean, last year it was like. 1s Everyone was on NFTs for a while. Everyone was on d five this summer before, and everybody was on metaverse. Is there anything like that right now, or is it
INTERVIEWER
10:05
so we have a handful of different business lines, and we try to think holistically and make sure that the groups are are working thoughtfully together, but to some degree, it’s the size of the market opportunity. So I think we were highly focused on NFTs six months ago, and I still think that that’s, you know, going to be one of the hottest areas and one of the areas with the most growth, that the fundamentals are still there. But if the level of trading activity has dropped by 75% instead of maybe gone up by five x and what we would have expected, it’s harder to deploy as much of our risk and trading technology prowess towards it. So I think it’s still a very exciting area, but it’s taking a little bit less of our mindspace this quarter than otherwise would
RICH
10:49
have. I mean, NFTs flipping NFTs, I don’t know how you guys are approaching, it seems so left field for your business model or anything institutional. I mean. 1s Were you able? Is that literally like you guys are flipping apes and yeah, so I think it’s more about looking for ways where, you know, a computer can better solve the problem. So we’re not looking at the ones that are, you know, 510 million and thinking how we could broker them. It’s more about ones where there are 10,000. You can have a matrix, work through the correlations to see where one price spot gives you an idea of where, where one should be trading and use that to recalibrate our models. And if you think about it, it’s been so much value created by OpenSea, a lot of the exchanges are looking to recreate that value. They already have the technology to a degree, they already have the users. So they think what’s missing? A lot of its liquidity. It’s been partly us wanting to be pioneers and look at this interesting area, but also just a lot of our existing partners tapping from the
INTERVIEWER
11:53
back and saying, hey, this is an area where you could really help us. I mean,
RICH
11:56
everything not named open sea has effectively flopped massively. I don’t remember the numbers, but Coinbase’s NFT platform is a ghost town.
INTERVIEWER
12:06
I think that if we’re trading 100,000 bitcoin right now, maybe there’d be a lot of other success stories. But once liquidity is drying up, people are less looking at new venues and more want to stick to where there’s a core set.
RICH
12:20
Do you think then that obviously platforms like FTX finance these huge platforms that have been focusing on NFTs? Do you think that those models disappear or you think they just sort of keep these on a low burn until the next bull market?
INTERVIEWER
12:36
I think that a lot of it you can say is that the funding? Like I don’t think that Coinbase or FTX are going to acting and give up. Yeah. So it’s a bit early to think either it’s going to be in the mud. But think of NFPs in general. If you compare it to crypto and the lack of adoption over a dozen years, people laugh at the comment that, oh, it’s still early. It’s like the.com boom in the early mid 90s, but here with NFCs, it’s truly very early. I think that the level of attention they’ve gotten from so many different areas of focus is certainly inspiring and I have very much confidence it’s going to continue to grow. Yeah.
RICH
13:17
I think you could argue that the current iteration is maybe half of 1% of the actual use case of NFTs that most people who have been in NFTs for years are focusing on like the real nuts and bolts applications of it for, well, any transfer of value but like your deed or your mortgage or your car. I mean that’s a little more, I would say, impactful in the future than a cartoon with an alliterative name pudgy penguin or a lazy lion or whatever. That to me was like the clearest bubble. We’ve pretty much had in crypto as of yet. I don’t know if you agree, but it seemed like,
INTERVIEWER
13:59
I think that the prices of the assets someone says, should a drawing of a rock, a crude drawing of a rock, be worth a million? Some of these we might look back on and think it’s ridiculous, but as opposed to looking at TradFi and the level of services for retail, there have already been challenger banks and ways so that you don’t have to use a Citibank or JPMorgan and you’ll get an alternative service. But I think about artists and the crater economy really just has been a negative force over negative force and it’s just been well, it is what it is. You have to play concerts if you want to make money. There’s no more money in that industry. And the artists really have to be not benefiting from the technology, but suffering from the technology. So I think this is one that really is a game changer for the creator economy, since 1s if software can do the work of the promoters and all the middlemen, then there’s a very fat margin. If it’s art or music, it’s 30% to 70%, so there’s plenty of fat that can be taken out.
RICH
15:01
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So now just shifting back sort of to the larger, I guess, picture. 1s I’m assuming you have uncomfortable calls with clients when things start to go bad, what’s the most challenging part for you? And I guess interfacing, keeping them calm, explaining to them the context of everything that’s going on. I mean, do you have people that don’t understand that what’s happening in crypto is largely a function of the greater environment who are panicking?
INTERVIEWER
15:31
I think it’s somewhat biased. There’s some groups that are really focused on the optics and the levels of adoption, whether it’s TVL or volumes. And those groups, it’s like when the tide goes out, they’re left naked. And if they are naked, they were doing very well in terms of the optics. When the optics sour, if they didn’t have much behind it, I think they’re the most concerned versus the groups that weren’t reverently, ever focused on the optics. They’re more focused on building. Think those groups are like, oh, here’s our opportunity, we’re finally going to get noticed. And the competitors that didn’t have as good tech or good teams, they’re now more easy to compete with.
RICH
16:12
What kind of clients are you guys servicing now? Who is the bulk of your
INTERVIEWER
16:15
clientele? So I think today there are about 250 issuer clients. So groups that create coins or tokens and think about 15 exchanges that contract us, basically pay us to help them light up the board and fill up the gaps. We’re very much a crypto native focused trading firm. And while we do have some prop oriented trading, the bulk of our 300 people today are mostly servicing these crypto native type clients. We do have some high net worth and some tradfi type clients, but I think that maybe from being so early and really, really having a deep understanding of what the crypto natives have needed, that’s where we’ve butted our bread.
RICH
16:56
I think you’ve told the story before, but I still think it’s worth going into why crypto for you in the first place. You were doing quite well and had a pretty nice, comfortable, probably existence in the legacy financial system before
INTERVIEWER
17:11
this. Yeah, I think that having an excitement seeking type personality was what brought me to Oil. It had that volatile derivative sense to it where it’s a complexity and there’s a lot of action going on and geopolitics element and after a decade of that there’s always more to learn. But I think a whole new world where there’s a different set of geopolitical socioeconomic philosophy involved as well as even more volatility and it brings in a lot of different actors since technology now mentioned entertainment. So I think it’s that idea of learning and excitement which really brought me in.
RICH
17:52
Yeah, it was a big risk. Seems like you seriously rolled the dice. That said, through that time, I think most of the necessary infrastructure
INTERVIEWER
18:03
to service, I guess institutional clients, big money has probably been built, but other things you see that are glaringly lacking still that need to exist, even if it’s like a certain kind of contract or ways to
RICH
18:18
manage risk custody. Is there anything glaring, you think, that we still haven’t built that was probably just not going to get past the risk managers of this sort of big wall of money that we still believe is coming? I’d
INTERVIEWER
18:29
say it’s the simple stuff, the user experience and the customer relationship management. Because we have strong relationships with major exchanges, it’s on a near daily basis that someone will say, hey, XYZ Exchange, they owe me $100,000 or 5 million. It’s been a few weeks not getting feedback on where it is usually does get resolved, but I think that clearly things have been moving too quickly and some consolidation is probably
RICH
18:58
good right in the bull market, just from the consumer side. I had talked to CV on the podcast and a couple of other Exchange CEOs and they said that it would have been physically impossible, no matter how large they were, to ever scale customer service to the amount of sign ups that they were getting. Yeah, I think a lot of them probably look forward to the bear market to catch up. Quite right.
INTERVIEWER
19:21
I think they mean well and in the end do right by their clients since they know that having that good client service is what’s brought them to the level today. But I’d agree, probably the market needs to catch
RICH
19:33
- Rose I mean, that answers the question, I guess, on the sort of infrastructure side and what needs to be built. But you touched on sort of the UX UI side. 1s I think we’re probably further away from Grandma being able to use and buy crypto than we are from institutions being able to come and do
INTERVIEWER
19:51
that. I think that’s true. Grandma could go on on Coinbase or use the app. I think that side is palpable, but I think it’s more in DeFi. Like some of the things happening in DeFi today, it really feels like it’s magical when you press a button, you’re on MetaMask. It goes from your browser to suddenly providing liquidity in the cloud. But as far as you’re not seeing any of that happening, you’re more just pressing a button and you have to understand the theory around it. I think if there was more of a visual interface and dialogue in terms of what’s happening in real time, do you think that would make people feel more comfortable?
RICH
20:29
I think just opening a Metamash wallet and actually knowing what to do with your keys is challenging. Oh, 100%. Right. And that’s just not something I think well, either people are daunted by it and don’t want to try it, or they do it completely wrong and they’re the ones who are the victims of these phishing scams and such. I know there are scams in every industry. It just feels like obviously with the popularity is expected, but it feels like we’ve seen a major uptick.
INTERVIEWER
20:54
If you’re on Instagram, it’s like most of my inbounds are crypto scam. It’s a pretty sad state where we are
RICH
20:59
today. My Instagram account is gone, so I was getting five to ten imposters a day messaging every single person that was following me. Like Scott Milker with two LS or something. How’s your trading going? But it got to the point where some of them actually convinced Instagram that my account was the fake one. Now. I have no instagram
INTERVIEWER
21:18
account. I’m lucky I don’t have as many followers. It wasn’t even that many on Instagram. But it shows you how much sort of, I guess, bad actors are focused on this because it’s pretty low hanging fruit. Totally.
RICH
21:31
So how do we get to the point where you log onto a platform and you can do all of this without those second and third steps and worrying about your teeth, and having to open a separate wallet, and then having to send Aetherium from that wallet somewhere else to do it?
INTERVIEWER
21:50
Yeah, I think there’s different communities. Like when you think about the crypto insiders and this, this might be into the hundreds of thousands of people echoing not your, your keys, not your crypto. But I think for most people, they don’t want to have to know what a key is. They just want it to things to work and be simple. So I think you’re going to continue to have different communities that have different levels of knowledge. If you’re a real builder in the space, you want to know all the, the idiosyncrasies and probably want to be staying cutting edge and have regulations stay a little bit further away or keep it offshore versus for your average user. I think we just need more regulations because time will bring better products and those better products might just have better fidelity or less likely to get scammed on them. But I think it helps to have regulators come in and push out some of the bad actors and celebrate the good players.
RICH
22:42
Do you think that’s what’s going to happen?
INTERVIEWER
22:44
I think it happens over, over time, but I think they might accidentally push out some of the good actors. And I think that they have limited resources, especially the SEC, so they’re often going after the biggest groups rather than the smaller groups. And it might be the biggest groups create a lot of the innovation and are generally doing things well, but definitely see the SEC as a, as a tough job since there’s just the the speed of things are moving so quickly. They
RICH
23:11
can’t vet 20,000 assets to determine individually which one is a security or not, and which one is, you know, powered by bad actors and which one is sufficiently decentralized. But, you know, I guess we’re all hopeful for some regulatory framework that makes sense, but you have to imagine with how slow they move. 1s That it’ll be a completely different space they’re regulating by the time they even decide.
INTERVIEWER
23:33
Also, it’s just their their scope is that it’s based on the Howie test or
RICH
23:38
it’s not 1940. It’s
INTERVIEWER
23:39
also not based on whether it’s a good investment or not. Like, you could be completely legitimate from a regulatory perspective, but just have a really bad idea and people shouldn’t be investing in it. So I think having the public be more more informed and knowing, you know, 1s what is the types of areas they should be investing in and what are the things to look for even outside the regulatory look,
RICH
24:01
do you think that’s why the industry seems to be pushing towards the CFTC instead of the SEC?
INTERVIEWER
24:05
I’ve certainly thought that because you have commodity participants, you don’t have commodity investors as much. So I think the CFTC is a bit more pragmatic in terms of being more broad and focused versus the SEC has a history of really specifically looking out for retail. But retail does need to be looked out for it to some degree. Yeah, right. 3s But I think we’ve seen actually an evolution of people who sort of had this, like, F regulation feeling now even are you like, maybe regulation wouldn’t kill us? Well, which is a really interesting sort of paradigm shift, because I think there’s just so many people waiting for any sort of clarity to be able to
RICH
24:49
operate, certainly from companies. Right. Nobody’s touching the US.
INTERVIEWER
24:56
That’s where all the investments coming from. So they certainly want to have a dialogue with us investors. But as far as the builders, from a tax perspective, from regulatory perspective, a lot of people are offshore. From the entrepreneurial perspective, you have to be nuts to try to operate in the United States, especially as your core like base. But that hasn’t stopped money from pouring in, sort of, as you said. I mean, certainly VC Andreessen 4.5 billion not too long ago. No
RICH
25:26
dragonfly. Noted 650,000,000. There’s still absolutely massive money pouring into this space. It just seems to be pouring in through venture your capital.
INTERVIEWER
25:36
Yes. I do think that if you look at what’s happening in the global macro economy, crypto, despite prices falling more than other assets, still continues to be one of the brightest spots.
RICH
25:48
Yes. So do you have any fear now in this sort of bear market and macro environment that we might get the worstcase scenario panic mode? That there’s one side that’s been screaming about the Great Reset or another Great Depression? Or do you think that this time it isn’t different and we move
INTERVIEWER
26:07
on? I think there’s sort of two paths. It’s either going to be pretty BLA environment and not very sexy to trade or live through where we have some pretty persistent inflation, but for political reasons it’s difficult for central banks to hike, but that could last several years. The other way is that it actually 1s hike up interest rates and signal that they’re going to be a bit higher and stay there longer than currently bond markets expecting and maybe that’ll be six months to a one year span of risk assets really getting hit, but get inflation down to 2%. Now we could move on with the a normal type of investing.
RICH
26:52
So you’re not seeing. 2s Scenario where the bitcoin maximalist, the world melts down and it’s all over and bitcoin becomes a global reserve curse. I don’t either, 1s that this is just another sort of bear market. And Fed, I mean, historically, Fed tightening cycles have actually not been that bad for markets.
INTERVIEWER
27:10
Yeah. I think the world keeps getting wackier each year that passes, so I want to say something’s impossibility, but I think that we’ve seen inflation before. It maybe it was 30, 40 years ago where it’s really been this much of a threat. I’m sure we’ll get past it and crypto will as well, but I think that it’s going to be an ugly path along the way.
RICH
27:34
I’m always confident that things will end up going up in an election year. 2s It may be a really long summer like last year, but maybe it’s my pessimistic side says that they’ll pump markets in October, November, December because they want to keep their jobs.
INTERVIEWER
27:51
Yeah. It’s a really short term greedy decision, though, because if we continue pumping more money in, then it’s just going to look really bad to yourself.
RICH
28:00
Right, but I mean, do you think that there’s really a path to where they’re going to stop printing money long term?
INTERVIEWER
28:07
I think that sort of wear our bed. That’s generally what happens when you have a popular, driven political regime globally.
RICH
28:17
Yeah. Print more money. Yeah. It’s really hard to keep your job if you do austerity or sentence world into a
INTERVIEWER
28:24
depression. Also, once you have all this borrowing, the way to make it cheaper to pay it back is to devalue the value of those dollars that you borrowed. Right. So they’re has to be an end game to that eventually though, right? Yes.
RICH
28:38
What is that?
INTERVIEWER
28:40
More and more borrowing? I don’t
RICH
28:42
know. Endless muddy printing. It’s a really interesting environment and I have to say I’m a bit surprised at just how bad and quick it’s been with solely really inflation being the only. 1s Story.
INTERVIEWER
28:58
I mean, three years ago, we’d probably be talking about deflation now and demographics of all the first 1st world countries not having enough births and technology, keeping the level of wages too low. So hard to know what’s going to happen in a few years. Yeah.
RICH
29:19
So is there anything like before we conclude that’s really exciting to you in the crypto space that’s happening, or do you think it’s just sort of sideways and choppy and waiting for the next moment?
INTERVIEWER
29:31
I think that taking a bit of the fog away. It’s easier to see top projects and top builders and they’ll probably attract just as much or if not more money to them. So I think that there’s some silver aligning to what’s happened. Now, as you mentioned, some of the top funds are still attracting capital, which is multiples of what it was a couple of years ago. So I think that the people that were in this industry more for the short term winnings or more because it was the hot thing to do, they might be leaving, but I think the real core builders are going to be nosed down. I think a lot of the best stuff really gets built in bear markets anyway,
RICH
30:13
So maybe we won’t have 20,000 coins by the time this is done. Maybe it will be down to like 16 or 17,000, especially. Huge culling. Thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it. Always a pleasure to talk. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you haven’t already left a rating or a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify, please do that now. Spotify just added rating, so please go ahead and click that five star. I’ll see you guys next time.